3X08 Think Lovely Thoughts – Main Show – Even Lower Ratings, Charming Love, and more



– Ginny and Josh are expecting! Charmers and Goshers rejoice!

– The star of USA’s Covert Affairs (Christopher Gorham)
is returning to ABC to visit Once Upon a Time

Pasted from

– Rant about Twitter spoiler pics not being shown as links, but the actual picture.

– Top 3 U.S. States that download our podcast so far in November;
Number three – New York
Number Two – California
Number one – Virginia


Think Lovely Thoughts (3X08) 6.66 Million Viewers – a new low
Dark Hollow (3X07) was 6.71 Million Viewers
Nasty Habits (3X04) was 7.05

OUATIW consistent drop

Episode 6 “Who’s Alice” 3.53 Million Viewers.

We are working on a OUAT Fan Podcast Holiday Special 2013. Some fun for all you Oncer listeners!

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From Janell

Janell from Ohio checked in sending Big Love to everyone! She’s in college now and wrote an essay on OUAT.

How many other listeners have written papers on OUAT in school?


From Lisa

Hi Jeff and Colleen,
Just finished listening to your first thoughts on last night’s OUAT and, while I enjoyed the episode for the most part, I can’t say I was as enthralled by it as you were. I had pretty much decided that Peter Pan must be Rumple’s father so that revelation was a bit anticlimactic for me. I’m also getting weary of the way in which the writers give us a taste of something awesome one week and then barely follow up on it the next. Snow and Charming had their emotional confrontation in last week’s “Dark Hollow,” this week they shared one snippet of dialogue. Emma’s desire to get David back to Storybrooke and keep her family together deserved more than the glossing over it received in this episode as well, but then I think that the relationship between Emma and her parents deserves more attention than it gets in general anyway. I’d be curious to know if there were any scenes deleted from this episode. I would have loved to have seen what Hook and Tinkerbell and Snow and Charming were up to(yes we were told but I’d rather have seen and heard for myself) while Emma, Neal, Gold and Regina were looking for Henry and Pan. I think Neverland has been a great setting for these characters and has allowed the writers to explore their relationships in new and interesting ways, but I don’t think they’ve done as much of that as they could or as much as I would have liked(especially with Emma and her parents).
In conclusion, one question that I couldn’t help but ask myself as I watched last night was: rather than pursue the heart of the truest believer, why didn’t Peter Pan simply flip the hourglass over? Of course that would have made the entire season up to now a mute point but it seems an obvious, albeit less dramatic, solution to Pan’s predicament. Just a thought.
Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and theories.
I hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving!


From Maii

Hi guys Maii here so my friend Lexi just wrote this really good meta about the spinsters being the fates that I’d thought you’d like to read =) 
I’ll be sending my thoughts on the episode tomorrow or wednesday bc I have to finish a 20+ pg investigation on ABC for one of my classes so I haven’t actually had time to rewatch and gather my thoughts hehee. 

The Moirai or more commonly known, The Fates are three goddess that are the incarnations of Destiny. Sometimes they are described as ugly old women, sometimes lame. They were thought to be severe, inflexible and stern. The fates are the controllers of the “Thread of Life”. At the birth, the Moirai spinned out the thread of your life, followed your steps, and eventually would cut the string when it was time for your death.
The Fates did not interfere in human affairs but took advantage of events when they could. They also had a hand in directing a mans morals but since man is born or freedom, man had a certain amount of influence. Giving man the opportunity to change his fate.
The names of the Moirai are:
• Clotho: The spinner of the thread of life. She had the most power as she decided when a person was to be born, thus effecting a persons life. She also had the power to chose who would be saved and who would die. She is believed to be the youngest of the three.
• Lachesis: The measurer the thread of life. She is belived to determine destiny.
• Atropos: The cutter of the thread of life. She is known as the inevitable. She decided how a person was to die. She is believed to be the oldest of the sisters.
In Think Lovely Thoughts we saw Adam and Eddy’s version of The Fates. Two spinster ladies, spinning in their little cottage who finished off each others thoughts. They worked in sync with the other. Just how the fates work together so did the spinsters. Adam and Eddy did not give us a definitive break down of who the spinsters sisters would be in regards to the fates but they can be viewed as Lachesis and Atropos. They gave them the power of all 3.
Where is the third Clotho you ask? An argument can be made the The Seer can be is Clotho. She had a great amount of power. She not only has the power of Clotho but of Lachesis and Atropo. She could see all and how a person would die. When she speaks to Rumple she tells him about the birth of Neal and how he would die in the Ogre wars. Like Clotho she tells him about life and death. Very much like the fates in myth she does not directly interfere but gives information so that Rumple can make the decision on what he will do next in his destiny.
This is not the first time the Fates have interfered in Rumple’s life. We saw as a young boy the spinster sister gave Rumple the bean so he and his father could start a new life somewhere far away. Both new that if Rumple were to stay his fate would be something horrible because of who his father is. They were giving him the chance to change his fate.
Some of the things that seem interesting to note is that Rumple takes to spinning very quickly. The spinsters themselves say he is extremely talented and could spin for Kings and Queens. This can be foreshadowing that he will be the third fate. As the Dark One he kills the seer and talks over her power. Even Rumples poster is about a man changing his fate.
None of this is just pure coincidence but set up as a twist to the Greek Myth of the Fates. We even see Rumple myself manipulate peoples destiny for his means. getting Regina to create the curse. Snow and Charming to meet so they could have Emma. Even making sure he was locked in the cell when the curse hit. As the Dark One he behaves like The Fates. Not interfering with people lives but offering them something to change their path in life.


From Ro

Hi Jeff and Colleen, it’s been awhile since I last emailed you, I like to stay in the shadows and lurkJ. I always hope to encourage you because I love your podcast. You are great podcasters and I appreciate the time you devote to this show. It takes a lot of confidence to put your craft into the world for people to judge it and I want you to know that it means a lot to me personally. I know ratings are low, but it ain’t over yet.  I wish you continued success and big love from my heart to yours. (You can cut this part and be modest if you like)
Ok mateys….
I watched the episode again and noticed things that I did not see before. I wanted to share my thoughts with you. This is long so feel free to highlight what you want to say on the show. Please excuse any typos.
Rumple’s Dad (Subtle clues that were given)
·         His stature, mannerisms and behavior are just like Peter Pan
·         He has green eyes
·         Why is Peter Pan more mature as a boy then as a man? Is it because his father sold him as a child and as a result he had to grow up fast.
·         He seems to be having a problem telling the difference between imagination and reality
·         He is narcissistic and can’t help it.
·         He thinks he is too weak to be a father and admits it. Rumple is suffering from the same thing. It is brave to admit your faults, but true bravery is to face those faults, which is why he is a coward.
·         Is the reason he resented fatherhood is because he didn’t love rumple’s mother?
·         She is well dressed for being on a deserted island, so is Snow, and Emma. Where do they shop? Neverland Republic and Never Crew(Banana Republic and Never Crew just in case you didn’t get my corny joke)
·         I kept staring at her hair. It was some good hair.
The Shadow
·         Why is he so mean?
·         He doesn’t seem to want anyone on the island
·         The shadow made sure that rumple saw his dad turn into peter pan. Why did he point?
·         The shadow seems vengeful and somehow jealous of everyone who comes to the island.
·         The next time I need a taxi I will call the shadow. He will drop you off right at the doorstep.
·         He is a gatekeeper to keep people from staying on the island. Who put him there?
·         The shadow has blue eyes. This will definitely come into play later.
·         The shadow is willing to help Peter. What is in it for him?
·         Blue is near green on the color wheel; if Peter loses the magic and eventually dies will he become the new shadow? What will happen to the old shadow? Is it like when Rumple killed the old dark one?
·         He has essentially become his father. He is a trickster.
·         He is still trying to make deals after everything that has happened!(Emma wanting to save David)
·         He looks a lot like his father.
o   Look at the color of the mustache, Bae has a similar mustache
o   Look at the color of the hair
o   Look at how the hair falls
o   A good part of his stature is like his father’s
·         Poor Rumple he has to kill his father
·         Were the women that rumple’s dad left him with witches? They were pretty abnormal.
·         The shadow made boy Rumple go home
·         Rumple rolled his hand over Pandora’s Box like a magician, like abra kadabra, walaa!
·         The witches aren’t very concerned about boy Rumple. He shows up crying and they ask about the bean.
·         The witches know more than they are telling boy rumple. I think his dad planned this.
·         I defined undoing. What if undoing refers to Rumple’s power and not his life. Rumple would consider losing his powers as his undoing.
Peter Pan
o   Peter gave Rumple the doll not to scare him or prevent him from saving Henry. In a way he was apologizing. I think it was his way of saying I want to be with you. When you remind someone of such a sentimental gift like that you want them to remember how it made them feel when you gave it. He wants rumple to remember his feelings for his father when he was a child. The story has gone a complete 360. The doll kept reappearing because it was Peter’s way of saying that I will never give up trying to be with you. I will always be your father.  Rumple does the same thing with Neil and he is always asking Neil to believe in him. Could Peter need Rumple to believe in him to stay alive?
o   I guess asking your son to join you in being evil and mean to others is sort of an apology. Never mind the fact that I am about to kill our grandson to live forever as a child.
o   I loved the design of skull cave
o   Peter was teary when he gave rumple to the shadow.
o   Rumple is wrong Peter Pan does have a weakness. It is Rumple. When he trapped Rumple it turned open, Rumple can be let back out, but what will come out before him or after him if they let him out.
o   Peter was hurt that rumple didn’t take his offer.
o   Peter brings boys to the island to try to save them from the fate he had as a boy.
o   Have you noticed that every time peter tells the twisted truth he grimaces and looks really sad? He really can’t help himself. He suffers from self-preservation as well.
o   I don’t think Henry’s heart is going to work. Pan says that he needs the heart of the truest believer. In the story when Tinkerbelle was dying in never land and losing her magic she needed someone to believe in her so that she could come back to life. She needed someone to love her enough to believe in her. Henry doesn’t believe in Pan he believes in the magic and this will only give Pan so much time.  Rumple is the only one who could be the truest believer for Pan so Pan has to make do to survive.
o   Pan keeps the lost boys for their hearts because they believe in him. He doesn’t take their hearts, but he needs them to believe in him. That is why he collects boys because he is always searching for a strong believer. He only keeps the truest believers of the boys. Remember the conversation Snow, Emma, and Regina had with the lost boy they captured; he wouldn’t budge in his belief of Peter Pan and his plans. That is pretty strong belief for a kid so young.
·         She is believing
·         When she went on her believe rant she completely channeled Snow’s mannerisms and behavior
o   Look at the look of disbelief on her face(Snow gives people who don’t believe this look)
o   Nice tall straight back(Snow stands really tall when debating)
o   She picks a position for the debate( Snow always picks a pivotal point to stand when debating belief)
·         Usually she has her father’s demeanor
o   Rushes into battle
o   David’s stance and swagger
·         Emma is not as selfish this season. She cares for everyone. Emma said that she couldn’t learn anything from her parents, but I think she has.
·         Emma has completely straight hair again, like bone straight.  When it is time for her to be the hero, her hair is always straight hair. Maybe I am thinking too hard.
·         I am not sure if I am seeing things, but Emma used to wear her sword on her side like David, but now she carries it on her back like Snow carries her bow and arrows. Does this mean that she is now channeling her mother’s thinking?
·         I think Emma is tired of meeting new people from Bae’s past.
o   Did anyone laugh when they saw tink’s sword, she was already late to draw it. Maybe it was bigger when she was a fairy.
o   I disagree with you Jeff; tink’s hair does not look like a bird’s nest lol. I looked at a close up of tink’s hair on abc.com and it is gorgeous.
o   Like you guys said Henry seemed glossed over like in a spell.
o   Maybe his heart was golden because he was enchanted by Pan’s magic.
o   Poor henry why does something terrible have to happen to him for everyone to get along.
o   I don’t think Henry is dead. Henry and Pan didn’t swap hearts. Henry gave Pan his heart. Pan would need to give Henry his heart for Henry to die. Right now Henry is just a shell.
o   Hook seemed irritated with Emma. Is it because she has refused to choose between him and Bae? Maybe he is starting to have 2nd thoughts about what the kiss meant?
o   Did he overhear her talking to Snow?
p.s. – I’ve got to stop looking for ouat pics and blogs online because a lot of them don’t put the spoiler alert large enough, or in a place that does not give your eyes a safe place to land until you click away. Now I know a possible storyline for the next episode. Rant over thanks for properly labeling spoilers. 
Wishing you clear skies mateys.


From Ro

Hello Jeff and Colleen,
     I forgot to add this. We have only seen two of Wendy’s brothers; is it possible that Felix is the baby brother with the Teddy Bear?


Hey guys!! How are you?

Good news I’m done with classes for this semester…and my professional exam is on the 4th so kind of nervous about that but regardless.. Think lovely thoughts!

Where to start with this ep… I have a weird relationship with this ep bc it’s not one of my faves and yet I love it?

I’m going to deal with the reveal later on I’m going to go with the rest of the ep and then lead into that

Darling Fire- loved that reunion! It was adorable.. And I love that he didn’t correct her when she called him Bae… Did love that Rumple saw right through her lies like finally you got your bs detector fixed!

Nevengers – dude the pose of everyone with their weapons drawn was perfect.. Did you notice that Emma was the only one that started to Lower her weapon when she saw it was Rumple/Regina.. Like oh it’s just you

Did love that the prophecy is now out in the open and that everyone was willing to protect Henry.. And Hook’s expression was hilarious like oh we’re going up against Rumple? Awesome!

Captain Charming- this bromance kills me dude he didn’t even hesitate to give his sword to Killian.. I really love what they are doing with their relationship and this scene proves how much Good Form/echo cave changed things btwn them… Before that Charming wouldn’t have given him the sword

Little Miss Bad Timing- Emma I love you more than anything you’re my favorite but damn you’ve got bad timing.. I love that you we’re trying to bond with Killian but you just had to pick that moment? Of course he wasn’t going to tell you anything with Rumple and Neal in hearing distance.. You know he doesn’t like to be vulnerable in front of people and you asked him about Liam in front of those two..

Charming/Emma- I need more scenes with them okay… I just do .. And I love the implication that they talked about Killian.. I need that conversation

Magic- loving the teacher/student between Regina and Emma.. Their relationship is really great this season.. I need more of magic Emma..

Henry’s family – I loved that scene it’s probably one of my favorites in the series .. Here’s Adam and Eddy saying to all the naysayers all three of them are important and each of them is as much as a parent as the other..

Because deep down that’s the core of this show.. It’s not about fairytales or love stories.. It’s about family

Although I do put my foot down when some calls it a family show, bc it’s way too messed up for kids to watch bc of the themes but that’s just me..

But like I said the core of this show is FAMILY.. Which is why I loved this episode..

Now for the rumple..

First the reveal this was my actual reaction (pardon the cursing)

Wait no.. Dude what.. Dude… Dude.. **** man,..holy ********. Damn you Adam and Eddie you evil geniuses..

Which btw have you gone back and seen the previous pan scenes? The clues are all there and it’s like Woahh

And Cora is laughing like mad because she’s finally got someone who is a worse parent than her.. She’s like Malcom Pan here’s my worst parent award it’s yours..

.. Dude the casting department in this show probably has a deal with the devil or something bc they all look alike..

Now we get why Rumple reacted to Bae’s bean the way he did..the parallels on this damn show kill me.. Bc dude it’s not just just Bae & Rumple it’s Rumple and Milah.. She said the same thing to Rumple that Rumple said to Malcolm..

 For all we say about rumple’s parenting.. I have to say at least we know that Bae is the most important person in his world and we can’t say the same for Malcolm Pan..

…and yes I do recognize that I saw dude a lot.. I was raised in Southern California it comes with the territory

Well we’ve got a hiatus this wk.. So well have to wait to see what happens in what I suspect is the last in Neverland next wk..

Much love, Maii


My thoughts on the episode

1. What’s the point of everyone drawing their weapons on Rumpel, they can’t kill him or even injure him unless they are dipped in deathshade. 
2. . Really, did you need to make an eclipse couldn’t you just cover the moon with clouds? 
3. like father like son
4. Did Henry hear the conversation between Rumpel and Pan? The place wasn’t that big. Did Pan cast some sort of spell that didn’t allow Henry to hear it or something?
5. Noo, not Rumpel. 
6. How come no one thought to mention something about Rumpel to Henry
7. Noo, Henry don’t listen to Pan.  What an idiot (do you get the reference?).  

I went to Disney on Friday and I parked on in the heroes section, which includes Aladdin, Simba, and Peter Pan. I couldn’t help but think except on Once Upon A Time where Pan is a villian. 

I am going to Enchantacon on Nov 23 and I can’t wait! Hopefully, I can meet some other fans of the show and some of you listeners!!



ONCE comments



Hi Jeff and Colleen,
Here’s what I learned this week on Think Lovely Thoughts.
#1. White men can’t fly.
#2. Emma’s gymnastic skills are improving. 
#3. Henry needs a hearing aid.
#4. Regina and Emma are fans of Bonnie Tyler. 
#5. If the boy is not Rumpelstiltskin’s undoing, the rescue party will be.
#6. Emma is a footwear forensics analyst.
#7. Neverland may keep people young but apparently is does nothing for Henry’s voice.
#8. Even dolls have a backstory.
#9. The Mills family has a crazy obsession with ripping out their own hearts.
#10. Good looks are worthless in Neverland. 
Here are a few more thoughts on the episode. 
We have seen multiple people with their hearts ripped out but they haven’t died until the heart is crushed. We have never seen someone else’s heart put into another body so I’m not sure how it will affect Henry. It could just make him unconcious. If this is the case could Emma sacrifice her own heart for him? Regina could sacrifice her heart as well but it might not be the best option. How will having Henry’s heart affect Pan? Peter is selfish and only cares about his own well being so could having the heart of the truest believer change him for the good? When Cora finally got her heart back we saw how it changed her.
Has the prophecy come true now that Rumpelstiltskin is trapped in Pandora’s box? Is this the undoing the Seer spoke of? Henry did lead him to his son and if it wasn’t for him, Rumple wouldn’t be trapped right now. Since they were going to use Pandora’s box to trap Pan instead of unleashing all the evil, do you think the contents could already been emptied long ago by Pandora? Hopefully, Elpis is still in the box and can help Rumpelstiltskin escape and fully redeem himself.
Pan has the power to keep people from aging, as we’ve seen with John and Michael, even when they were not in Neverland. So I still hold to the theory that Rumpelstiltskin doesn’t age because he gets it’s from the same place Pan does. If Neverland was created in the mind of Peter, that means if he dies, the real Neverland may cease to exist, only leaving the dream of Neverland alive. Anyone who has stayed young because of the power of Neverland, would start to grow old if Peter is somehow killed. By Henry giving his heart to Pan, maybe he actually IS saving the magic of the island. Why else would Rumpelstiltskin say, if Pan dies, he dies as well?
My last thought is how did the spinsters get the magic bean? We know the fairies used to have them so could these two women be fairies also?
Have a great podcast!


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