MS 4X08 Smash the Mirror Pts1&2 – 256


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Michael Coleman “Happy” Podcast Intro


Thank you @1michaelcoleman

Episode Name: Smash the Mirror Parts 1 & 2

Episode Number: 256

Show notes can be found at:


The Mid-Season Finale at Dave and Buster’s at the Outlets in Orange, CA has been postponed until the Season finale. We will keep you posted.

Marilyn read that Maleficent will be getting a new elaborate headpiece when she returns.

Email points:

From Deb

You know what would be an awesome season ending. Bell finally catches on to Gold.
Switches the daggers,without his knowledge. Catches him in some devilish act,drags him home by the ear. With something like “I am calling the shots from now on”

Just a fantasy I would love to see.

Keep up good work guys. Great fan. Really love that you are fans like me and not always pointing out what’s wrong with show.

I have listened to some other pod cast and I don’t think they are fans at all.

Keep sending the love.



From Chris

Wow where to begin with this episode. I have extremely mixed feelings about this one. Some things i really liked, but some I found just stupid, namely, Emmas plot. What the freak!! I found this to be one of the most ridiculous things to ever be on this show!! A few lines from queenie makes her go berserk? What is she like the electric type pokemon, her magic makes everything electric go haywire, or maybe shes an alien. (you know cuz aliens supposedly make electric stuff go nuts) Just really didn’t enjoy this at all. I did enjoy the ending of it and the payoff i just thought it was way over the top. Next, Robin and Regina, this disgusted me. Robin is supposed to be a man of honor. His wife, whether she was gone for a time or not, she is back, frozen, and all he is concerned with is boinking with Regina. I understand these are extraordinary circumstances, but there are way classier ways to handle it. Next, the frozen storyline is starting to bug me as well. I feel like they’ve completely undone all the character development from the movie. I don’t like the twist of Anna putting Elsa in the urn at all, Shattered sight or not. Part of me did find it cool them playing off Elsa always saying go away Anna, but as such a huge fan of the movie, I just hated seeing Anna turn on Elsa. I guess that just increases Ingrids evil. So neat how they sort of broke the fourth wall with Ingrid basing what shes doing on a book like the show itself is based on a book. I felt it was way out of character for charming and snow to encourage Emma to get rid of her Magic. I feel like the Charming and snow we know would never do this. Ok, enough negativity. Some things I love… Elizabeth Lail is still amazing as anna, positively enchanting. She captures the spirit of Anna so well. Its incredible this is her first big role. Ive got a feeling big things are in store for her. I love where Regina and Snows relationship is at!! Their conversation in the woods and Regina believing in hope was just awesome. She owes Snow a quarter. Beautiful moment. I do wonder how this will affect operation mongoose since Regina now knows her fate is affected by her choices, not what the author wrote. So Rumple needs Hooks heart. I guess my theory was wrong but I should have seen this coming. Everything in this show ties back to hearts one way or another. Im glad they’ve stopped flip flopping with Rumple and hes just embracing his dark side. Robert Carlyle is at his best when Rumple is at his worst. I love it. How could Emma trust Rumple? Dark one lies, Dark one tricks!! I really was worried Emma might have went in that room, the tension in that scene was so thick!! When Elsa went to the mansion I was thinking she may have gotten sucked in the hat, that would have been interesting. It was cool that she saved Emma, although personally i have issues with the whole love yourself thing, but thats my personal morals. I really hope Rumple doesn’t kill Hook Emma deserves him. I loved their kiss and “easy tiger, we got company” so cute!! Now about Elizabeth Mitchell. As always, shes incredible!! She gets better and better every episode!! She’s so patient in her evilness. She just stood there in her prison, biding her time till she could get out and wreak more havoc. Really cool seeing how she got to our world. All the talk about how the Sorcerer knows so much makes me feel even better about my theory that he wrote the book. Speaking of theories, everyone’s theory on the ribbon was correct. So far Ingrid is winning. I really have no idea how they will fix this. Storybrooke is in a real pickle since Emma and Elsa now have those Ribbons on their wrists. I assume it will distort their view of Ingrid and make them love her. I wonder who can save them now. Maybe their building up Rumple’s evil again just so he can do a 180 and save everyone. Well 3 episodes left to find out!! I guess we now know where Anna is currently? Frozen in Arendelle? Shouldn’t this freeze her heart and kill her? Who knows because we all know this show is terrible at following rules!! It was chilling when Ingid said “everyone sees me as a monster, maybe its time to embrace that, and be one” I had a theory that maybe Ingrid had Grand pabbie in storybrooke and thats how she erased Emmas memories but apparently not, she just knowe how to do it herself. All in all a great episode but I have to take major points off for the Emma plot and outlaw queen. 3.5/5 magical fireworks
-Chris Tipton

P. S. Another curse is coming to storybrooke… SHOCKER!! And can we please see the actual sorcerer!! I know people are saying that maybe the apprentice is the Sorcerer but i dont think so, i doubt he could get sucked into his own hat

From Chris Part 2

Can yall also please on the main show discuss who had the hat and when, like the timeline of the hat. Im confused because if Ingrid have the apprentice the hat before she came to our world, then why when Rumple came to her ice cave in storybrooke did she assume she still had it. Im confused. Thanks!!


From Brad

Good day Jeff and Colleen, I sure hope the frozen Hansicle outside the studio keeps intruders away. With a two hour amazing episode, here are the things I learned in the episode, Smash The Mirror.

1). When yelling surprise, inflection
means everything.

2). Snow’s positive attitude about
hope may have all been just a
bribery scandal.

3). Batteries not included will never
be an issue for Emma.

4). Pinocchio’s strings have been
passed down to Hook.

5). Forget about being the sheriff,
Emma is now available for
sporting events, grand openings,
children’s birthdays and the 4th
of July.

6). Elsa is an enabler of Anna’s
chocolate addiction.

7). Dr. Seuss may be the owner of
the hat.

8). Emma has learned the secret of
the ha-dou-ken (Street Fighter

9). Gold would be great at making
the meticulous dish, Persian rice.

10). Traversing the woods is a breeze
when you own a Volkswagen



Although I adore Emilie de Ravin, I seriously think it’s time something drastic happen to her character. Now before anybody goes crazy, let me explain. Mr. Gold in this episode was pure evil and knowing that he always has Belle in his back pocket, is just making him worse. As the show progresses, I see him going farther and farther down the path of darkness. So what would be the one thing that would bring him down, crush him and bring him to his lowest point? I believe it would be the death of Belle. This doesn’t mean that I don’t want her on the show anymore. Nothing could be further from the truth. Unfortunately, for there to be anymore character development to happen, we need to see something major happen in Gold’s life. This doesn’t mean that Belle actually has to die, only that Gold believes she is dead. The writers could make the audience believe this is true as well but later reveal she never actually died. This would give Gold’s storyline a dramatic turn but still give the viewers plenty more Belle.


I think these alternative pages could be an amazing story arc! Imagine if Gold could see what his life would have been like if he had chosen Bae over his magic, actually fought in the ogre wars or used the dagger for good instead of evil. Seeing what their life could have been is a powerful motivation for any of our characters.



After seeing this episode, I truly believe when the Apprentice speaks of the Sorcerer, he is referring to himself. An effective way to protect an important person is to keep their identity a mystery. Just like Jacob in Lost, at one point I was convinced he didn’t even exist. It also reminds me of how Padme masqueraded as her own handmaiden while the decoy pretended to be the Queen. You learn a lot more about people when you pretend to only be a lowly servant instead of a powerful Sorcerer. You also get the upper hand if the villain believes he’s trapped your assistant in a magic hat instead of you. Was is all part of a plan?


If our land is the land without magic, how was Ingrid able to stop herself from aging?

If Regina could always make a locating spell, why haven’t they retrieved Anna’s necklace from the ice cave and used it to find her?

Which dwarf does Emma hate?



From Maii

Hey guys how are you?? I’m good, suffering because we don’t have a new episode this week.. Damn those AMA awards hehehe.

First of all, you’ve never seen Hocus Pocus? Dammn Jeff you have to see it.


I personally think the frozen arc is wonderful. All three of them play their characters beautifully. I love the idea of the three of them working together.

Also we get gems like this!

Kristoff: Hey I may have slept in a barn but it was a spotless barn

I love the contrast they make between Anna/Elsa and Ingrid/Gerdra.. When in doubt Gerdra turned on Ingrid while Elsa and Anna stood by each other. The most important person for them is each other and that’s beautiful really.

I hate that we’re loosing them especially Elsa because she’s just the friend Emma needs. Because no Regina/Emma can be allies at most and they don’t really understand each other but Elsa and Emma? Like Magic. They are like sisters, they truly care about each other.


I don’t think Charming is afraid of Emma and her magic, he’s always been extremely supportive of every area of her and he doesn’t want her to change. He just wants her to be happy. His wording was off and I think even he realized it because he regretted the words the moment they came out of his mouth.

Also the irony of the villain (Ingrid) caring more about protecting Emma than her own mother does (Snow was a lot more worried about Regina’s sex life then about the fact that her daughter was in danger)

The Book:

I would love for Regina to stop saying the book portrayed her as a villain.. Well guess what back then you were a villain. It wasn’t the book’s fault but your own. You were doing so well last season accepting faults why don’t you go back to that. And Regina that would have been a good moment to tell him how Marian really died.

Just one thing about Robin… Did you forget you have a kid because you spend your week moping about your one week relationship or cheating on your wife just saying..

I am very worried about Will (and about Ana) he’s drinking a lot, every time we see him he’s drinking.. I don’t think Ana is dead but I do think something bad happened to her. Also don’t think they separated by choice but rather were forced to.

Killian Jones:

First of all ALL THE AWARDS to Colin O’Donoghue.. Seriously he is in my opinion the best actor in the show. The way he portrays everything and his voice cracking with the voicemail.. Everything is subtle so it’s a lot more meaningful and it’s just so beautiful

Just a few things I’d like to point out.

Killian stated in that beautiful speech where he clearly said I just wanted to be a better man for you, Swan, and I failed.
Killian’s heart NOT having a touch of black on it.
Killian still loving Emma with his ALL HEARTLESS.
Just adds to the evidence that Killian IS NOT and NEVER WILL BE a villain. Everything bad in regards to get revenge over Milah’s death he did was because of LOVE. Not the pure need to kill Rumple but because he was so in love and so driven by it that he needed to avenge her death. Now we have a heartless Killian who will continue to be good for Emma because he LOVES her. The confession on the phone wasn’t a direct I love you but one that skirts around it. Love is what motivates him to be good or bad. It is like a gray area of love where certain actions are not completely bad or good ones depending what they are and what for. LOVE IS STRENGTH. Strength it gives you to live 300 years to avenge the death of a love one. Strength to change. Strength to confess every dirty little thing you have done in the past week.

Knowing that he will die once Rumple is done with me gives Killian the chance to just go off and be a villain. Not care about anything or anyone and just enjoying the time he has left, but he doesn’t. Killian will continue to do good because that is how he wants Emma to remember him. He wants to be remembered as a good man who made a poor decision but until the last minute did everything good.

Right now Killian is heartless and is still being motivated by love. He has come so far that he doesn’t need his heart to love Emma or being a good man. Just like how Snowing only needs half a heart. His heart, the piece that keeps him good, is in Emma.That is True Love.


I was waiting for the camera to pan towards Belle but nope.. I still think she’s going to be the one to kind of save Killian.

I’m sorry to rumbelle fans but Belle deserves much better and I don’t think Rumple can be redeemed at this point (and if you read Bobby’s interviews he seems to agree that Rumple can’t be redeemed). There’s only so much she can forgive before she sounds like an.. well idiot

Also he doesn’t care that Emma is Henry’s mother, or that she was the woman his son loved, he said it to Emma. He would choose magic every single time.

I definitely think Belle is going to find out about the heart and be instrumental and getting it back to Emma. Belle ithe one that claimed his heart is rotten and I think we’re getting a call back on that. Especially since we saw that Killian Jones’ heart doesn’t have one black spot in it. We could get a a scene with Belle saying to Killian something like “I’m sorry. I was wrong about you. Your heart isn’t rotten at all.”

Now for Part 2!

Hocus Pocus is one thing but the Princess Bride? Come on.. It’s a classic! It’s the classic. Also it related a lot to ONCE bc Killian Jones was partly based on the dread pirate roberts and Jane Espenson has confirmed the As You Wish/CS connection. Just saying =P


The Shattered Sight spell is clearly something else. I can’t wait to see it on a larger scale you know? The things she was saying were so heartbreaking and they completely broke my heart.

Elsa knew it wasn’t Anna. She sacrificed herself for Anna, for her love of Anna. That is how you portray sisterly love and it’s beautiful.

They have been paralleling Anna and Killian all season and it becomes so clear in this ep.

Anna hid something from Elsa. Elsa didn’t care because she loves Anna.

Anna had a spell put on her that made her do something to Elsa that she didn’t want to do. Elsa told her she knew it wasn’t her and loved Anna anyway.



Hmmmm. Wonder why they showed us all that CS relationship building stuff before this episode. Wonder why they wanted us to see the depth of feelings Emma had for Hook. What? What’s that you say JMO? ”Emma is sort of Elsa to Hook’s Anna”

Regina- Charmings

I loved how she got through to them that Emma can’t give up her magic because it’s a part of her.

I kind of hated the Snow/Regina scene later in the ep.. The talk of hope is good but the context kind of sucks. I’m not gonna lie not only is it not the same situation (Snowing were actually married and the affair turned sour, OQ are NOT actually married) Marian died protecting Snow by Regina’s hand. And the whole let’s stop and talk while my daughter is in serious danger.)

I am mad that we got this instead of an actual scene between Emma and Snow

(post from a friend that explains my emotions)

Instead of having an emotional conversation between Snow and Emma talking about all of their issues about their mother/daughter relationship and how it seems like Snow only appreciates Emma as the Saviour and not her daughter which was the cliffhanger last week, they have a conversation between Snow and Regina about Regina having an affair with a married man where all she does is whine about not getting a happy ending! Snow and Emma just hug like none of it happened!

Emma Swan

I am someone who has struggled time and time again wit self-love and self-esteem issues. OUAT might have a lot of issues but when they do something right? They do it soo right. I am so in awe of that scene because of everything it represents.

I know there’s a bit of misconceptions with this scene. Elsa wasn’t the one to save her, Emma saved herself.

I know people wanted it to be Killian but it couldn’t be him for 2 reasons:

1. He doesn’t love himself, if he doesn’t love himself then how can he ask Emma to love herself.

2 Elsa is the one character in ALL of Disney that has struggled the most with self-love. Her movie is about accepting every part of yourself, that’s her arc. Emma needed to hear it from someone who has struggled the same way.

I don’t presume to judge I don’t like that, I don’t like I assuming. People who have never struggled with loving yourself don’t quite understand what it is and what it means to truly love yourself.

I think I’ve mentioned it before but one of the reasons Emma Swan is so important to me is because she’s one of the characters i’ve related to most in my life. I mean in books, broadway, movies,tv etc there are few characters that I relate to as much as I do to Emma Swan. I’ve never been in foster care and I have a loving family but I’m very different from them and I’m a walls-up person so it’s not easy for me to trust others because of the times I’ve been burned in the past. For a large part of my life I’ve struggled with it, with loving myself completely and for me to see that on tv. To see that portrayed with Emma? It’s beautiful and so meaningful. It’s so important to me and to everyone who’s ever struggled with it.

That scene wasn’t about romantic love or friendship it was about loving yourself. When you put it in the context of the show it’s even more beautiful. Emma got a true love move with herself. Don’t you realize how powerful this is? She got a true love action because she loved herself. The product of true love accepted to love herself.

The fireworks show was gorgeous Emma’s magic is made of true love so everything she does is just so beautiful and I’m crying because there’s one person missing and it’s Killian and I cry.. We were saying it was like The Jolly Roger x a thousand in how it hurt.

Gold vs Killian

Robert Carlyle is AMAZING and so is the Dark One. Because he’s so much better when he’s full villain. He is unredeemable right now. The scene is hurtful enough by the setup.

Killian gets trapped the exact same way as before. Rumple is still standing between him and the woman he loves. He can’t save her and it is breaking him apart.

I think Rumple tying Killian up to the gate, standing in between him and the woman he loves, and taunting him about Milah, was one of the cruelest things I’ve ever seen on this show.

It just – I’m not kidding, it broke my heart. This is the worst ****ing thing he could ever do and to throw in killian’s face, to be like you spent 300 years looking for vengeance that you gave up on in favor of love but since you can’t save her i’m going to stand here between you and her and talk about how all of that was for nothing. How you’ll have to go through what you did with milah all over again for hundreds of more years let’s watch as emma dies shall we and just wow it’s the worst ****ing thing thats ever been done but the dialogue is truly amazing like A+ writers for this dialogue like god it is beautifully evil.

Also can we talk about how when Rumple ripped out Killian’s heart he kind of paused to look at it with this look on his face like he just can’t believe how incredibly red and bright and NOT AT ALL BLACK it is??!

Because he totally noticed and his sneer kind of froze and he looked a bit shocked and horrified. Can we talk about that? I feel like it’s important, not just for what it says about Killian, but for what it says about Rumple and his character development. He’s always projected his own darkness onto others, Killian especially (even just a few episodes ago he was all “you and I both know you’re a terrible person deep down and you’ll never be good enough for Ms Swan”) so for him to rip out his nemesis’ heart and see that it’s that bright? I feel like this is really important.

Another of the reasons I think Rumple doesn’t really care about anything other than power, not even his son’s memory helped.

It’s the saddest part of this, because even Killian was convinced of Rumple’s devotion to Neal. To the point where he thought it extended to Henry by lineage.

That rage isn’t just for Emma.

It’s for Henry.

It’s for Baelfire.

It’s for Milah.

The family Rumple so casually tosses aside when his power is questioned.

The family Killian greedily picks up and tries to keep.

Captain Swan

Parallel to gremma

to snowing

I think the message is definitely going to come back. We didn’t see him delete it so I definitely think it will come back later.

You know something I loved about the CS kiss in the last episode?

That was the first kiss that was in front of someone else.

That might sound SUPER weird but hear me out here.

All their kisses up to this point have been in private. Or, just not in front of others (I guess the middle of the street/tables in front of Grannys aren’t very private but you get me). But this one; this one, Elsa was there. And the reason I love it is because it shows how comfortable they’re getting with one another. Sure, Emma said “easy tiger, we’ve got company” but you could tell she wasn’t really that annoyed. Rather she’s probably just not big on PDA.

BUT SHE WAS STILL OKAY WITH IT HAPPENING. And Killian still felt comfortable kissing her even though Elsa was there. He didn’t think anything of it.


Once you’re not afraid to show affection in front of others, that just shows how much you trust the other person, and how okay you are with the relationship. Similar to what happened in 4×02. That’s a pretty big step. And I feel like it’ll only become more relevant from here. More hand holding, little touches, tiny pecks. All that.

Also this is the reunion he never got to have with Milah. Something very important is that notices that something is off.. This scene is heartbreaking and beautiful. Even without his heart Killian Jones loves every part of Emma Swan and is madly in love with her. He’s staring at her so hard because he knows that with his heart in Gold’s possession and with Gold’s every intention to kill him at the end of all of this, he’s still going to lose her one day — so he wants to remember every little moment, the curves of her face, how she looks at him, her dimpled smile, the taste of her, how she feels in his arms… I’M FINE, I SWEAR.

Emma knowing something is different with Killian is just as heartbreaking as Killian looking at Emma and memorizing everything about her because he KNOWS HIS TIME IS LIMITED.

I am emotion.. and I actually wrote a meta post about why Killian couldn’t be the one in the scene with Frozen Swan and I’ll post it in the blog bc it’s long heheh

Lovely talking to you guys, Love Maii


From Marilyn

Hi Jeff & Colleen (and, of course, Lady)

Some thoughts on Smash the Mirror:

• I have a theory that the so-called apprentice is actually the sorcerer and that he only made it appear that he was pulled into the hat.

• If Henry somehow acquires magic, will Rumple at some point be faced with the decision of saving his grandson (not drawing him into the hat) vs breaking the dagger bond?

• I think that Will Scarlet knows more about the storybook than he is letting on. He was already found in the library once before with a torn out page containing the Red Queen’s picture. And I think he has been searching Storybrooke under the guise of thievery .He was even searching thru Robin’s tent at one point. He mysteriously was no where to be seen when Regina came to the library to talk to Robin. I think it might be possible that he was the one to place that page in Robin’s bag. Also, the way he is drinking might just be his way of drowning a broken heart. I am speculating that something went awry with his Wonderland ending as the White King with his love, the Red, now White, Queen and he is looking to change his storybook ending.

• When Killian made his heartfelt phone confession to Emma in Gold’s shop, mentioning that the dagger Rumple gave to Belle was a fake, I fully expected Belle to step out from the back,room of the shop and confront Killian about what he said. I am actually kind of disappointed that did not happen.

• I am so upset with Rumple for what he has done to Killian. He has literally and figuratively ripped Killian’s heart out. When he made that statement, “You’re my puppet now.” was just chilling.
But did you notice that when he took Killian’s heart, there was no “darkness” in it. I was pure, a hero’s heart. So that means that when Rumple told Killian that the darkness was in him and not in his missing hand, that was another mind game and lie by Rumple.

Take care,

P.S. I already have the date for the ONCE finale party circled on my calendar. I am really looking forward to it as there is nothing like viewing one of your favorite shows in a group of like-minded fans. So I encourage all your podcast fans in the area to come!


Voicemail points:

Play Brad’s Voicemail

Play Beverly Elliot’s Voicemail message to Oncers


Make sure you Tweet lots of love to @thereelbeverley and thank her for leaving a voicemail on @OUATpodcast

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