Episode Name: The Snow Queen
Episode Number: 254
Show notes can be found at:
Discuss Podcast release schedule
2 First Thoughts tomorrow night – Smash the Mirror Part 1, then Smash the Mirror Part 2
We will release a Main Show for each episode
We will be attending the Winter Finale Watch Party on December 14th, 2015
Dave and Busters (Outlets at Orange)
20 City Blvd W
Bldg G, Ste 1
Orange, CA 92868
Views from the Studio
Colleen’s Theory about the author of the book
Each character writes their own story as they make choices and learn things in life.
Holy crap, holy crap, holy crap what an episode!! Ingrid and her sisters were very cute together. Im glad Helga isnt related to anyone, or anyone we know (cough, cough bells mom). Once again we see someone go to Rumple and it ends badly. I really love how the progression of they’re story made sense, and the tragic end to it really makes me sympathize with Ingrid more. It kind of surprised me that Gerta trapped Ingrid in the urn, i thought they’re love was stronger than that, but I can see it, given the horrific circumstances. I found it fascinating how this was almost a fan fic of how frozen could have turned out!! Is it just me or did Helga look nothing like Emma… Did they forget that point?
Now, outlaw queen… Holy snot im so proud of Regina. I feel like shes almost Snow levels of good now. She deserves Robins choice, but its still sort of jacked up of Robin… Today is not the day I follow my code!! Ok dude!! I suppose he can blame it on him being imbued with much dark liquor (credit for that goes to Daniel Lewis from ONCE podcast, i can’t take credit for his genius)
Anyway, Emmas Lord of the Rings reference was genius! Aurora and her “devil box”, shes really getting acquainted with our technology!! We see Ashley for no reason for the first time in forever (sing it!!) They completely trolled us when Robin asked Will what happened to Anastasia and he just gave no answer at all, but troll of the week goes to Gold…tricking Henry with the magical potion of furniture polish, and black cat at that!
Ingrid using Emmas jealously about her brother and uncertainty about her parents to set her powers off… Shes so wickedly twisted!! Even though i get her somewhat now, shes still coo-coo for cocoa puffs!! Her look when Emma blew out the wall was priceless!! She looked completely bat crap insane in that scene! Ive been saying all along she will become the best villain yet and I really feel vindicated after this episode. Elizabeth Mitchell is so talented!! Why does she want her ribbons back, what did she tell Rumple that he could have been so gleeful to have to do? Overall This was my favorite episode this year 4.8 out of 5 Shattered sister’s – Chris Tipton
Ivd been racking my brain all morning, and ive finally come up with something. What if Rumple has to find the actual sorcerer, who is the real owner of the hat, and kill him. Rumple may or may not already know who it is. One the original owner is dead, Rumple can have full ownership and full control of its power. Thats my pet theory and im sticking to it!! – chris tipton
Hello Jeff and Colleen, here are the things I learned this week on the episode, The Snow Queen.
1). The statement “We will never look
at you as a monster” actually
means, we will DEFINITELY look
at you as a monster someday.
2). When the power goes out,
choose which candle you use
3). The sheriff’s station has a ‘newly
installed’ back entrance.
4). Every child knows his mom’s
5). It always starts with a dance.
6). Gold’s shop has the cleanest
floors in town.
7). If you ever need to distract Hook,
just give him a mirror.
8). If you need a partner for darts,
let Robin down easy.
9). Don’t underestimate the power of
10). Emma never has to worry about
a cold cup of coffee.
Do Henry and Regina really think they can pull this off without Gold realizing it? This is the Dark One, he knows everything! Including who walks into his shop without ever turning around. He either wants it to happen or doesn’t care. It reminds me of trying to trick your parents when you were young. They somehow always knew. If Henry ends up using the hat, it’s all part of Gold’s plan.
What makes Ingrid a villain? What I mean by this, is what has she done with evil intent that cannot be reversed? She froze Hans and Marion but neither of them were killed. We assume she erased Emma and Elsa’s memory and did something with Anna but have not yet been given any proof. She made Emma feel like her parents feared her but that won’t last. So far, all of these things are redeemable. Her sister doesn’t count because that was an accident. If you look at the whole picture, she’s really not that evil. In fact, Gerda trapping her in the urn and erasing everyone’s memory of her is worse in my opinion. Also Regina and Gold have done far more evil things than she ever has, just saying.
THE PRICE OF MAGIC
I agree with you Jeff, the price for Gerda erasing everyone’s memory is more than likely, Elsa being born with the same powers as her trapped and forgotten sister. This way, she would never forget what she did to her.
When Emma and Elsa are in the Sherff’s Station, Emma gives Elsa a book that tells about a spell that can trap Ingrid. Before she lays it down though, for a brief second, there is a transcript that can be seen. Here it was it says:
Q. What’s your name?
A. Cyril Kemp
Q. What do you do for a living Cyril?
A. I am an unemployed math
teacher. I receive a small disability
pension. It’s because of this
problem I have.
Q. What problem do you have?
A. Something in myself when I sleep.
The dream, you know.
Q. Do you have a criminal record?
Q. Where do you live?
A. I live in a homeless shelter.
Q. Do you know this boy?
A. Yes, I know him. I saw him playing
Q. Did you take this boy with you?
A. It was me that took him, yes. You
should say that. It was me.
Q. Took who?
A. The boy in the park. I don’t know
why. Anger I suppose.
Q. Where is the boy now?
A. I don’t know.
Q. Where did you hide him?
A. I don’t know. I don’t know.
Q. You said that you took the boy.
Where did you take the boy?
A. (Refuses to answer).
Q. Cyril, where did you take this
I have no idea what this transcript is, I
just thought it was really weird.
As Regina flipped through the book, she saw a picture of Snow and Charming, Cinderella and Thomas and right before Robin and Marion, we see an image of the Golden Bird story. We have seen this story multiple times in the book. I don’t think it has any significance, I just find it interesting that they use it all the time.
Yes, it was shown again in Rumpelstilskin castle.
There was a obvious shot of Emma’s tattoo in this episode. I feel we may learn it’s importance soon.
The sisterly pact, which said, “As long as we hold these ribbons, we will be there for each other, we’ll never be alone” was broken once Ingrid gave her ribbon to Rumpelstiltskin. She forgot the importance of what they stood for and I believe this weakened her bond with her sisters, or at least with Gerda. So when it came down to remembering the pact, all Gerda saw was a monster.
TURNING TO ICE
In the movie Frozen, Anna did not turn into ice right away when her heart was frozen. Marion’s body instantly froze, then it moved to her heart. Once the ice reached it, Regina said she would not be able to be saved. Then when Helga is hit in the heart, she falls apart! What are the rules of being frozen because I have no idea!?!?!?
INGRID AND THE URN
From the time Ingrid gets sucked into the urn and then released by Hans, there is a dramatic change in her personality. I thought maybe that something else had happened before this but she is wearing the same outfit. I would think she would still feel remorse and want to make amends but time in the urn seems to have made her bitter and jaded.
MOMMY SUPPORT GROUP
Although I loved seeing Ashley and Aurora again, I wish they could have been used more intricately in the show. We go from not seeing Ashley in forever, to pretending like she’s always been there. It’s the one thing that really bothers me about the show. The Blue Fairy should be helping with Ingrid but she’s completely vanished as well and nobody seems to have noticed. It’s so frustrating when you love these characters so much!
INGRID’S WHISPER TO GOLD
Theory #1: Gold needs to use the hat to take away Ingrid’s, Elsa or Emma’s power in order to her the hat to work.
Theory #2: He needs the heart of the thing he despises the most.
Theory #3: The owner of the hat needs to die or be killed in order for a new owner to obtain it’s ultimate power.
Do you think the ribbons posses power to make someone love you?
Is Helga really gone? If there is a way for her to return, this would be all that Ingrid would need to turn back to the way she used to be.
Hey guys! Hope you had a lovely week, my week was actually pretty great, very good episodes in my shows, great spoilers, , changed my hair color and the best I got the paperwork for my degree turned in so I should be getting it around april!
Omf how about that episode?? It was really good definitely was a build-up ep for this week’s but definitely still pretty damn amazing.. I’m going to do something maybe different and try just focus on everything Emma’s storyline (okay maybe that’s not so different from usual but yeah)..Usual Suspects is a fantastic movie.
WESELTON!! I loved the callback of the weasel really..
I think this is probably the best villain backstory they have ever written in the show. Why? because unlike Regina or Rumple this one was truly tragic. A truly tragic accident.
The sisters’ relationship was pretty incredible. Helga was by far my favorite and she was the one that calmed Ingrid the most. The story of who they got the gloves and how everything happened broke my heart. I loved seeing Helga stand up for her sister above everything.
I definitely feel like everything could have been avoided had Ingrid been stronger and trusted her sisters instead of handing over the ribbons. That’s where everything went wrong.
Helga was a lot like Killian in the way that they don’t care if the other person has magic or not, they love them all the same. The fact that her biggest supporter got accidentally killed by her. That must have been horrible to witness and Gerda’s reaction was no better.
It kind of sheds some light as to why Ingrid would assume that Anna was in charge of putting Elsa in the urn, after all it’s what happened to her.
This backstory doesn’t excuse Ingrid but it gives you an understanding of why she is the way she is. It makes her an even more interesting villain because she manipulates like no other and firmly believes she’s doing the right thing. Elizabeth Mitchell throws it out of the park with her performances.
Gerda’s price was having Elsa as a daughter.. Also I definitely think the ribbons will come back. She wants them for Emma and Elsa and that worries me.
Sidenote before I get into the meta of it all, Belle trying to protect Killian from the mirror was just too precious for words.
I don’t get why they would leave Emma alone with the Snow Queen I think that was definitely their first mistake. I loved how Killian and Charming automatically just shared a look and left knowing Emma would be in trouble. The scene at Gold’s is also very important because it’s Killian once again calling out Gold on his shadiness.
The scene with the streetlamp, this scene is so important. I’m going to have another section on Snow so I’m not getting into that here so first: blocking.
I don’t know if I mentioned this before but my degree is in Com specialized in Film. So I got basically trained in a way to notice this sort of things, blocking, scene direction, etc etc.
When the streetlight lamp falls Emma is on one side and the rest are on the other. Killian is on her side of the lamp post as well.. Charming, Snow and Henry are right behind the lamp post.
Elsa and Rumbelle are pretty far behind, although Elsa is closer. Elsa and Rumple know what out of control magic can do so they obviously are standing back. The charmings are right behind the lamp post meaning they are close but there’s a barrier between them and Emma, something preventing them from getting closer.
Killian is on the same side, and he’s reaching out. Killian will be the only one to manage to get through to her. He loves her and all that she represents, he loves the savior, the lost girl, his swan.
This episode makes a lot of emphasis on hands, the sisters hold hands, Gerda refuses to hold Ingrid’s hand, Emma’s hands seem to be the cause of the magic going haywire… you know who else had a big emphasis on hands? Captain Swan. Throughout the eps this season they had a big show of making us see CS holding hands or touching in some way. He helps her control the magic and even in this ep he reaches out for her. He doesn’t want to let her go. He reaches out even after she runs because he doesn’t care.
He and Charming are the only ones to get close to to her. They don’t care what she is, they love her all the same.
Killian Jones is about to be crushed by a falling street lamp and he doesn’t even know. He’s just standing there watching his Swan, hurting for her. All he wants to do is help her. And he can’t. And he feels so helpless because she is frightened and he can’t do anything about it. It’s chaos around him and he’s focused on Emma.
And Charming? We all know he loves his daughter more than life itself. And I think in this instance the falling lamp post is what gets his attention. Not because it’s going to fall on him. Not because it’s going to fall on Emma. Because it’s going to fall on Killian, on the man who is making his daughter happy.
My beautiful Adriane and her extremely beautiful metas just say the things I want to say in a much eloquent manner.
Emma being afraid of her magic isn’t seeing Emma going back to her old ways, it’s actually seeing Emma trying to deal with who she is once again, so far, Emma has only tried to use her magic to protect people, now she needs to get a hand on it all.
This is the classical kind of step for the hero: the passage where they need to deal with the “darker” side of her magic, the thing is, the only dark side in Emma is actually her inability to trust herself. She came a long way, she started trusting her son, her parents, her lover, Killian, but now, she needs to trust herself.
Ultimately, while Emma is surrounded by people she loves and who loves her, she needs to get in that place where she knows she can do it and believes in her own skills.
This is certainly not an easy thing to do and wont be easy for her to move past those issues of her, it won’t be easy seeing how the Snow Queen is pushing the right buttons. More seriously, the Snow Queen pushes further by actually putting her own issues on Emma. In a way the Queen is right, they are a lot alike except that everyone gave up of her when Emma’s family isn’t and won’t.
Emma’s arc now will be all about trying to move past this wall herself, it’s believing in herself, believing in the love of others and knowing that yes, she is not alone and not a monster.
Today, Emma was reminded that she could very much be a monster, and she doesn’t need to think much to picture it: she saw Rumple, she saw Regina, Zelena, Pan, and now the Snow Queen, and if Emma learned one thing it’s that those people didn’t start as wrong persons but at some point things went wrong.
Emma saw the fear in her loved ones’ eyes when they faced monsters, people she herself considered to be monster, but now, she saw the exact same thing in her mother’s life.
Again, this seems to be the main piece of the puzzle, Emma’s mother, she always missed that figure in her life, and definitely has an issue with Snow right now. She saw her mother being scared of her, in a way she was scared of other villains, other monsters.
Emma didn’t believe the Snow Queen when she said she was also a monster for her family, but she is definitely starting to believe it because of Snow.
I truly hope that they will address this issue because the potential is huge and the next episodes are just going to be excellent if they keep going like that. And there’s of course, no way that Killian and Henry won’t be a huge part of that arc. Next episodes showed us that both Henry and Killian being presently active for her to bring her back home – once again.
More importantly, it seems that the two people who accept her as she is will do everything to bring her back home safely.
If there’s one relationship they have let fall down the drain it’s Snow/Emma. They focused on Regina/Snow rather than Snow/Emma and a result there’s a severe lack of understanding on both sides (Starting in the Echo Cave when Snow mentioned it wasn’t what she wanted) . This episode though Snow was the one in the wrong.
The 2nd scene is more shocking but in a way it’s understandable, it’s a gut reaction, your kid does something bad and even if they don’t mean it you react. You could see she regretted it the moment she saw Emma’s face but for me the really really bad moment was the first one.
First there’s the 1st time mother comment which must have stung, not only for Emma as a daughter but as a mother as well.. Because she wasn’t able to all this with Henry. She ignored it and was all happy to babysit her little brother. Then the mishap happened and I was appalled at Snow. So this is the Snow that has her kid all around town with Regina and Rumple and Ingrid, Ruby etc and she doesn’t mind. But when it comes to her daughter she flinches?? She doesn’t just flinch she backs away and holds baby Charming closer to her. Emma would never hurt her little brother and Snow’s reaction was really bad.
“We failed Charming” NO.. WE didn’t fail. YOU failed Snow. Charming loves his daughter above all else. He went after her when she was freaking out and then he accompanied Elsa and Killian to go look for Emma. You stayed home and didn’t realize you had screwed up until Elsa pointed it out.Charming did NOT fail, because Charming had no fear he actually went after her. This one was on Snow.
I don’t really agree with the OQ scene because it was like hey here are all the reasons why my Marian was amazing, let me go have sex with her murderer…
Since the beginning of the show Emma and Regina were shown to be mirror each other. Light and dark, good and evil, parenting styles. So it make sense that their love interest are the same as well.
Hook started of as a man of honor, only to become a man without honor because of first love (he had a code as a pirate, but at the lost of Milah, he truly became a man w/o honor). Soon after meeting emma, he starts to become a man of honor again.
Robin started out as man w/o honor, only became a man with honor because of his first love, Marian, made him become a better man. After meeting Regina, he slowly starting to turn back to the man he once was, a man w/o honor.
So as to Jeff’s question:
I’m posting this under the CS part because it’s something that basically struck a chord with most shippers. We are all pretty sure Ingrid whispered something to Rumple about Killian.
Rumple responded with “With great pleasure” and there’s nothing that would give him more pleasure than hurting Killian Jones. He’s the only person other than Ingrid that knows about all of Rumple’s lies and the deal with the hat. Rumple absolutely loathes him and very much his enemy still. Also it helps out the Snow Queen because while she might have succeeded in alienating Emma from her family, Killian is a different matter. He’s a variable she didn’t expect, she didn’t think his love for her was that strong. She needs to get him out of the way if she ever wants Emma to be vulnerable enough to need to come to her. As long as Killian Jones is in the picture, Ingrid will never get her way. He is Emma’s person, he’s her true love and he has proven to not be afraid of her. He encourages her magic and Ingrid saw the reaction he had on her magic in the beginning of the season. The only way to truly crumble Emma Swan’s defenses is to take Killian Jones from her.
My friend Laura is evil bc she posted this after the ep: What if it’s like, true love’s sacrifice or something?
Like, Rumple’s actually going to manipulate things in such a way that Killian gets sucked into the hat in Emma’s place because he’s trying to protect her.
It would make perfect sense that to unlock the true potential of the hat there would have to be an actual of pure unselfish love. Who have proven to have pure unselfish love and devotion? Captain Swan
For the Belle thing, he’s already killed people and she doesn’t find out, so it’s probably not a big factor.
I figured I’d post this separately from the Emma ones because it was a very curious comment. It’s regarding the family comment during the talk with Ingrid.
I have been seeing many of my fellow CSer say that when Emma says “400 years”, she could also mean Rumplestiltskin. But we would like to think that it’s Killian.
However, I just wanted to point out that it is pretty canon on the show that she meant Killian. When Elsa asked if any of her “family” had magic, she said no. Well guess what? Rumple has magic. If Emma considered Rumple as her family, she would have said yes. But she didn’t.
And this both scenes are from the same episode. It means that ofcourse the writers had in mind what Emma would consider as her “family”. Besides in last week’s promo, when they said “family”, they showed Snowing and Emma with Killian. This was an official promo, by ABC. And let’s not forget that she has been making comments about Killian’s age for the past three episodes, skipping 4×05.
It is pretty canon that she meant Snowing, herself (2nd generation), Henry, and Killian.
But you know that’s all just the technical part of this.
What I think is so beautiful is that Emma already considers Killian as her family. It just goes to show how strong her feelings for him already were before she even accepted that she has feelings for him. You do not make someone your family just like that. Making someone a part of your family means that you are comfortable with that person, you respect their opinions, you respect them, and most importantly, you love them. Family is your home and Emma truly believes that Killian is her home, along with her parents and her son.
It took Emma two whole seasons to let Killian in, but once she did, she did whole-heartedly. She didn’t measure their love and said that how can he be family when I just started dating him. No. Once she let him in, she let all her feelings for him just FLOW. And I think the exact moment that she realized that he was family was in 4×02, when charming gave that “this family always finds each other and never likes to give up” speech. Because she knows that Killian found her in NYC and he never gave up on her, even when she gave up on herself. And here I am especially talking about 3×22 moment, when she gave up on her magic but it was Killian’s faith that she can do it, that made her do it. She wanted to run and hide and never look back because she was scared to embrace happiness. But Killian never gave up on her and made her realize that she deserves happiness and brought her home. And she knows that she would do the same for him whenever he needs her.
I think it is really beautiful, the way the writers are writing their journey. I mean it’s just that how all these moments which are beautiful individually, but when you connect these moments and form a bigger picture, you see how beautiful their relationship is and how beautiful this journey has been. Killian Jones is Emma’s best friend and a part of her family, and that is what makes their relationship so organic and rich, in my opinion.
There’s a great parallel storyline happening with Killian and Emma. The interactions with Emma/Ingrid in this episode were very similar to the ones between Killian and Gold during the Apprentice.
They were both manipulated into thinking they are monsters and they just want to protect those they love.
Amazing Parallel gif set regarding Killian/Gold and Emma/Ingrid
So that’s it for now, Much Love, Maii
@p2theezzo I think #SnowQueen WANTS them to shatter the mirror to cast her spell. She’s tricking them all! #theories #ouat
@Shelby_Renee24 You need to mention that the girl who played Ingrid played Lizzie on Walking Dead… my theory of why she’s a bit crazy ❄️