3X15 Quiet Minds – Main Show – The Thin Ice Episode. We miss Neal, too.

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Podcast Episode: 214

Shownotes for this episode can be found at onceuponatimepodcast.com/214

Episode Name: Quiet Minds

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News:

If Once Upon a Time is renewed for a 4th Season, Michael Socha (The Knave of Hearts in Once Upon a Time in Wonderland) will be a series regular

http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/04/01/michael-socha-once-upon-a-time/?ew_packageID=20736009

Once Upon uh Anonymous raised their $7,000.00 for their musical episode. I would imagine Erin and Ace give big thanks to all that donated.

Play views from the deck intro

Views from the deck:

Neal “Use your magic to separate me from my father.”
Emma “Are you kidding? You’ll die”

Luke and Vader in Return of the Jedi

Lumiere’s fire bindings like they used in Attack of the Clones

Discuss Neal’s death

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Social Media Squawks:

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Genevieve

Did anyone notice that Neal thanked Hook for bringing Emma back? Do you think he sent the potion?

Aubrey

If Snow’s Baby is the “heart”, it should be protected, like Emma’s

Emma has magic because she is the product of true love. Her heart couldn’t be ripped out by Cora in season 2 because of this. I wonder if the baby will also have magic like Emma. If this is the case and if Zelena tries to take the baby’s heart, it wouldn’t work. I don’t think she wants Henry because even though he has the heart of the truest believer, Regina put that spell on him, so that his heart could never be taken.

Aubrey

Am I the only one who thought of Home Alone when Neal had the insignia burned on to his hand?

Daniel

‘Course that scene HAD to happen five minutes before putting my own son to bed!! THANKS OUAT!! Like the king from Tolkien’s “Two Towers” (Riders of Rohan), “No parent should have to bury/outlive their own child.” Seriously though, one of the best scenes in the whole series! Knocked it out of the park!

Blog Comments

Maii

Something incredibly important I forgot to mention was
Rumple chose his son over magic. We saw the exact same situation that we saw back in season 1 Desperate Souls..This time around, we see character growth. He makes the right choice. He proves that he learned from his mistake the first time, and he chooses his son. This is huge. The entire reason the curse was ever enacted was because Rumple made the wrong choice the first time around. Rumple’s entire story has been about this moment – about proving to his son that he has learned from his mistakes. He has changed. Rumple knows now that his son trumps power, and this gave him the chance to truly prove that. He may have said it before now, but actions will always speak louder than words. Any doubts that we may have had about Rumple’s character growth were erased by this act.
(from here, read it it’s really good and explains why neal’s death work’s so well with the plot)

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Email points:

Dan

Great show, as always!  Here we go:

(1) Nice CGI of Lumiere, but AGAIN w/the “allow me to introduce myself”!?!  What is it with OUAT and “The Stones”??

(2)  Zelena, touching the tummy again!?!  Okay, NOW she’s just creepy!

(3) Re-introduction of Regina and Robin “sitting in a tree!”, a re-deux of “that pesky year”.

(4)  Hook w/jello?   ALWAYS room for jello. . . . but wait, GREEN jello?  Bae’s “kryptonite”??  🙁

(5)  Bae and Belle “forest scene”, reminds me of the scene from Disney’s Lion, WITCH, and Wardrobe, where Lucy meets Mr. Tumnus at the Lamp post.

(6) Bae/Neal, getting hand burnt like Joe Pesci on the doorknob in Home Alone!!

(7)  Robin hitting on “evil queen”!  WHISKEY??  AGAIN??   whoops, TATOO!!  Regina, “run away!  run away!” (a la Monty Python!).  Robin left standing there, and all I could think of was Liam Neeson as “bad cop” in “The LEGO Movie”, . . . . “Darn!   Darn!    Darney Darn!!!”

(Speaking of Monty Python!) (8)  Lumiere:  “I AM A FRENCH CANDELABRA!  Why do you think I have this OUTRAGEOUS accent!?!”

French Taunter (1:15)

http://grooveshark.com/s/French+Taunter+Pt+1/3liI8L?src=5

(almost done!)

(8)  Nice laughs between Emma and Neal!   WHOA!  Morphing!  Bae kept Rumple alive by being merged together!

(9)  Lumiere!  Saving the day!

(10) (my own thoughts!)  What I wouldn’t do for MY son!!

(11)  As I said before,    BEST SCENE . . . . EVER!!!   Neal “I’ll be watching over you!”  and “thank you papa, for showing me what it is to make a TRUE sacrifice!  It’s about saving the ones you love.”

Translation:  As it gets closer to Easter, “No greater love is there, than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.”

It’s all summed up in that folks. . . . 

Peace, 
Dan

Marilyn

Sent in the Hollywood Reporter interview of Adam and Eddy about the death of Neal

Excerpt Question “He’s really dead, right?

Adam Horowitz: The death is real and the character really died.”

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/once-a-time-neal-dead-horowitz-kitsis-692341

Brad

Greetings Jeff and Colleen, here are the things I learned this week on the episode, Quiet Minds. 
#1. The secret to defeating Zelena, is to tell Leroy she ate all the the bacon.
#2. Under no circumstances do you invade Regina’s space.
#3. A woman’s eyes can even get a pirate to do what she wants. 
#4. Attempted murder can be forgiven as long as there are extenuating circumstances.
#5. If Hook is selling books on Amazon as “like new”, don’t believe him. 
#6. Emma’s Super Mom breakfast was comparable to sending Aqualad to save the world.
#7. Regina should be the new spokeswoman for Jack Daniels.
#8. Think twice before using the bathroom in Snow’s and Charming’s apartment.
 #9. Zelena may or may not posses boxes of hair. 
#10. And all the Captain Swan fans said, amen. 

OBSERVATIONS:
They made a point in this episode to show the swan necklace that Emma gave back to Neil in the episode Manhattan. I feel this necklace is important and will show up again. A crazy theory I had is that this necklace may be the symbol of Emma or Neil’s heart that Zelina will need. Belle did say, it was born out of true love.

When Dorothy and her friends went to see the Wizard, he gave them items that symbolized what they were lacking. The Lion, Tin Man and Scarecrow never had anything taken away from them yet we’ve been attributing their personas to people in Storybrooke. We never stopped to ask the question, where did the Wizard get the items from? Could Zelena be collecting them for him or is she herself the Wizard? There are people who could benefit from what Zelena has stolen. Let me just brainstorm for a second.  Rumple has been a coward all his life, Regina could use a heart, that is not black, to fall in again and Henry could use a brain to remember. I don’t know, just some random thoughts. What do you guys think?
Zelena tells her flying monkey “Find him, beautiful one”. Could it be the monkey means something more to her?
The key marked Neil for death,  just as the medallion did with Regina and Prince Philip when the Wraith attacked them.

nealburn

Neil in Quiet Minds.

phillipburn

Prince Philip in Broken.

reginaburn

Regina in Broken.
I loved Lumiere’s character.
he sounded great and definitely added to the story. I couldn’t have asked for anything more. I really wish they could have done the same with Rapunzel. We did see Lumiere back in season one, or at least an Easter egg of what they wanted us to think.

lumiererumpel

Lumiere and Cogsworth in Skin Deep?

lumierequietminds

Lumiere in Quiet Minds.

The scene with Robin and Regina at Zelina’s country house was almost the same exact conversation they had in Witch Hunt before going down the secret tunnel to the castle. Check it out:
           
ENCHANTED FOREST
Regina:  You think you can stop her if she tries to hurt me?
Robin: Maybe. Maybe not. But I have to try.
Regina No. You’re not.
Robin: Not coming along? I do believe I am. I can help
Regina: I didn’t ask for help.
Robin: Well, that doesn’t mean you won’t need it.
Regina: Don’t get in my way
Robin: Oh, I wouldn’t dream of it
 
                   STORYBROOKE
Regina: You think you can bring down the Wicked Witch with sticks?
Robin: Well, I’m certainly going to try   
Robin: Well then you got yourself a partner
Regina: I don’t remember asking for one
Regina: Just don’t get in my way
Robin: I wouldn’t dream of it
 
This prompts Regina to say, “Have we met before”. Maybe she’s remembering slowly.
FRUSTRATING QUOTE:
Emma – “What does Zelena want?” 
Gold – “What she doesn’t have” 
Thanks for clearing that up Rumpel!
BURNING QUESTIONS: 
* We found out that the first Dark One 
   was made from the vault. Who made        
   the first Dark One and why?
* Did Rumpelstiltskin lose his memories      
   as well?

Marilyn also emailed to let us know about the Entertainment Weekly story about The Knave of Hearts coming to Once Upon a Time.

Maii

Hello Jeff and Colleen, how are you guys? That episode hurt, I admit it I cried but I felt it was a long time coming. Especially considering they foreshadowed it in Season 1 with Emma telling Henry about how his dad died in a fire and Neal technically dying from a burn in  his hand.
Belle – For me Belle was the MVP of this ep, which is weird bc I’ve never been much of a Belle fan 
FTL
 Belle was a bit suspicious at the beginning but put it away and then when he said the thing about the 200 years she knew her suspicious were confirmed.  She was the one who told Neal not to do it that Rumple wouldn’t want this and that they would put millions of people in danger. Even when Lumiere betrayed her she still saved him from the witch bc she could have easily ran off but she made sure to grab him. 
Storybrooke
Belle and Hook- these scenes were I think my fav of the episode 
Hook: I will stay here with you, I’m surprisingly good at research
Belle: You..will stay with me 
Emma: He’ll protect you if the witch comes
Belle: You do know he’s tried to kill me?
Hook: Ah, there were extenuating circumstances
Belle: Twice
Hook: Sorry?
This is a man who has admitted he doesn’t apologize and yet here he is apologizing,  he is on the path to changing and he knows that part of it is making up for what he has done.  There’s the fact that they trusted him to take care of Belle and Belle herself didn’t doubt it after her initial concern. She let him stay there and he rushed in with a sword to protect her not knowing who was trying to come inside. 
We can see that the only reason Belle is less forgiving with him than she is with Rumple is that he personally slighted her. She seems downright affectionate with him in the books scene and I thought it was wonderful. 
The scene in Gold’s shop with Snow holding Belle and Charming reassuring Hook was wonderful – they all felt like family in that moment, mourning the loss of one of theirs. It was good to have Snow and Charming as the unaffected ones offering support, since they never bonded with Neal.
CS Scenes
http://exquisitelyfortunate.tumblr.com/post/81279341504/captain-swan-3×15-scene-analyses
Neal/Emma scenes
Their scenes make me wish they had done more with Neal’s character because they showed that Emma and Neal could be friends for Henry. Because all their scenes were about Henry, Emma’s moved on ever since before the second curse she hasn’t wanted anything with him romantically. Neal in this ep actually understood that and he didn’t try to belittle her or her feelings like in other episodes. It makes me sad for the wasted potential. 
He told her to find Tallahassee with someone else just like Daniel told Regina to love again. In this case I’m pretty sure Neal knew exactly who he was talking about when he told her that.  Tallahassee didn’t mean the place it meant true love & home and they could never find it together. 
Both most of all I’m sad for Henry bc he didn’t remember his father before he died. Because for all his faults Neal actually was a good father during the time he spent with Henry, and he loved his son. 
Captain Fire – There’s 3 parts to this entire scene, the funny, the sentimental and the well let’s call it eye opening
The funny – Hook bringing him Jello bc it’s what they gave him at the hospital and he thinking it has medicinal properties
The Touching – This scene was all I wanted since we found out their backstory. Because Hook loved Bae like a son.  And it was Neal finally seeing Killian behind the mask of Hook, he actually called him Killian. 
Hook told Neal that they let … “A Woman” come between them. 
Not Emma, but “a woman”.
Because he was also talking about Milah. It was a double entendre. Because both women came between them in a way.
BUT…when he said it he was hugging Neal + Rumple. So he also acknowledged that Miilah was at the root of their 300+ year feud without even realizing he was doing so.
The eye-opening – no one has really talked about this scene everyone focuses on the other parts
“What’s it feel like, to play the hero after being a pirate for so long?”
“Unfamiliar.”
“And you? How does it feel to play the villain?” 
“I’m a villain now?” 
“Well, if you truly had a hand in bringing your father back. I’d suspect you to use the darkest of magic, and pay and even darker price.” 
I find it really interesting because Hook was the only to kind of bring to mind that what Neal did wasn’t actually heroic but rather probably the opposite. 
My friend Nini put these tags on a gif set of this scene #neal owning to his mistakes man that was one of my main problems with him #he didn’t apologize to emma until 2×21 #and then in 3a with mulan and aurora it was all ‘i let her go’ instead of ‘i fucked her up for good for the next 11 years’ #and here ofc he doesn’t remember what he’s done #but he must have had an idea of how desperate he would have been as soon as emma and henry left and rumpel died and they were sent back to the EF #everybody loves to call out on all the crap hook has done and no matter what he does to try to change and show that the good form lover inside of him still stands he gets called out for being a lovesick puppy #but hey no neal is a good guy he was only trying to get back to his family or let emma find hers and fulfill her destiny yadda yadda yadda #wake up call: no #and i love that it is hook the one to make him see what he was willing to put on the line to get what he wanted #little bae despised magic and so did neal but he was willing to use it just to get back his family #he didn’t listen to belle when she insisted he was making a mistake and they should look for some other way #alas he didn’t 
In the end they show you that that Neal didn’t learn from his father’s mistake. 
Rumple and Bae. that scene killed me and I liked the fact that they didn’t focus on the relationship with emma but rather on the relationship with rumple because this is what the show was about. Rumple getting back his son and now he lost him again this time for good. 
Outlaw Queen
Honestly I love their chemistry (and he was totally checking her out) and I love much it paralleled their first time in the EF. I had already seen the sneak peek of this scene so I knew her seeing the tattoo was coming but I loved the aftermath. I loved that she ran, because it’s true to her character and it’s what she did all those years ago. 
And yet what was different is she came back this time and if you think about it this is a Regina with no memory of last year so she has no idea Marian died. She probably thinks he is a married man. Which would mean she lost her chance. 

Sidenote: How cute of a father is Robin? Seriously 
Much Love, Maii

Marilyn

Ahoy there, Jeff, Colleen & Lady!
Some random thoughts I had about the episode Quiet Minds:
• I really need to keep a box of tissues nearby when watching ONCE episodes. I sure could have used them at the end of this episode, especially when Rumple and Emma were saying their final goodbyes to Neal.
•  It was interesting that only Killian suspected the tragic consequences of Neal’s effort to bring Rumple back. He seemed to realize that only the darkest of magic could have accomplished it and that an even darker price would have to be paid. I think that was why we were witness to that unexpected “bro” hug Killian gave to Neal. It was his way of saying goodbye. 
• The black goo that oozed out of the Dark One’s vault to transform into Rumble was a terrific CGI effect and also reminded me of the black alien oil featured in many X-Files episodes.
• I think the necklace that Neal returned to Emma is going to feature in whatever magic is created to vanquish the Wicked Witch because, as Belle said, it was born out of true love, the strongest magic there is.
• The image of the floating head of Lumiere seemed very similar in look to the floating head image of the Wizard of Oz.
• And finally, since there are no good delis in Storybrooke where one can get a decent sesame seed bagel, one must assume that there are no characters from Jewish folktales residing in Storybrooke? 
Cannot wait to see Sunday’s episode and ONCE’s version of “High Noon” between Regina and Zelena. 
Take care,

Marilyn

Comedy bit:

Trouble at Storybrooke Elementary School
Story Idea: Jeff Roney
Written by: Brad Pogras
Voices by Jeff Roney

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