Lily Analysis – Main Show – 279



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Lily Analysis

Main Show

Episode Number: 279

Show notes can be found at:

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Regal Con is next week

We will be hosting the first panel on Friday at 2:00-3:00PM in the Anacapa room
We will also be taking part in the Greetings From Storybrooke panel on Sunday at 4:00PM

Regal Con schedule link


The disembodied voice has been discovered! It is Jonathan Adams.

Email points:

From Aleana

Here my thoughts for this episode

Love Regina talking Emma down it was great seeing young Emma and Lily
My question is since the apprentice told Lily the truth shouldn’t she go after the author Isaac…

My theory is the author going rewrite everything and the villains going to be the heroes and heroes going to be the villains and everyone going to disappear from Storybrook into enchanted forest and since we know Henry was born here he be left alone and he going to be the new author because Isaac will probably died and Henry will have to rewrite it back they way it was



From Helen

Big love to the Roneys. New listener and first time emailing the show…so cue the music.

I have a theory that may be a simple ending to the season and put up a big bad for the next season. What if…like Emma’s potential for darkness was transferred to Lilly, they find a way to transfer Lilly’s darkness to Zalena’s baby, if she is truly pregnant? I totally do not like this theory but…you know how this show is with parallels. Yuck. Or perhaps the transferring vessels need to be of the same age so Emma may take back her potential for darkness. It’s seems Emma thinks she can carry all this darkness and still be light. But that would make Lilly and more importantly Mal happy. And I can see those two fitting into the Storybrooke community since it looks like Mal has become comfortable in the Mayor’s office.

I couldn’t help thinking that Regina and Emma were playing Cagney and Lacey.

I don’t know if Regina was showing “righteous anger.” Anger is anger whether you think it is wrong or right. I feel she was just so frustrated with Robin. Here she risks her safety to come rescue him and he’s like….”Thanks but no thanks.”

And that leaves the question…WHERE IS ROLAND anyway?! Oh, well. Maybe next episode he’ll come home from school.

Thanks for your podcasts,


From Chris

Hi Jeff and Colleen,

I am on my lunch break walking the parking lot at about 3 AM as I type this. And Jeff, yes I do have some Star Wars references for you In a bit.

I only watched the episode once so I could be misrembering but I thought the Sorcerer sounded an awful lot like the Cave of Wonders in Aladdin.

I wonder if Andy and Eddie are Mystery Science Theater 3000 fans because one of the locations was Hopkins, MN which is where MST3K was based out of.

Lily telling Emma to shoot her reminded me of the climax of Return of the Jedi in the throne room when The Emperor taunted Luke to give into his hatred and strike him down so his journey to the dark side will be complete.

Here’s where I lose probably a bunch of Oncers – My heart sank when I saw Rebecca Mader in the credits and it has nothing to do with her. I don’t have any interest in the character. It’s not dislike in the JR Ewing love to hate way. I just want the character to go away. I don’t care what she does, I just want her scenes to be over as soon as possible to get on to something else. For me, Zelena is the Jar Jar Binks/NikkI and Paulo of Once Upon a Time.

But enough negativity. Thanks for the podcast and keep up the great work.



From Chris

I apologize for the double email But I want to clarify that I don’t mean to say that I think Rebecca Mader is to blame for my indifference to Zelena. It’s just that the writers haven’t done anything to make me personally care anything about the character. With Regina, Rumple, Cruella, Hook, Pan, and Robin, I wanted to know more about them right off the bat. With Zelena, I have none of that interest.

Maybe it’s just me.



From Chris Tipton

To answer your questions Jeff, i am a star wars nut!!! I love it!! As for my favorite episode this season, that would have to be “best laid plans”

Onto my feedback. Once got back in my good graces this week, while not a spectacular episode, still very good.

I seriously hope there is more to the Sorcerer. I hope this was just sort of like when they use the communicators in star wars…. If this is all there is to him is a big swirling blob then its a huge letdown. Nice to finally put to bed that they are different… Entities at least. So apparently it was still the author who wrote everything that came after he got trapped. Nice to have that addressed.

Im going to say Cruella is definitely gone. We saw the body and a coffin. Shes gone.

Im extremely disappointed that Regina took Belles heart without permission. It was amazing (and foolish) when Will told Rumple hes already in the process of stealing Belles heart. Im very proud of Rumple at least doing one thing right and stepping out of the way of Will and Belle. This was a very sad scene. After everything Rumples done i still somehow feel for him. I just wish he could get what he wants without hurting people.

Im glad Emma showed some remorse for Cruella and its nice to know last week was just a stepping stone and not as severe as i thought. I loves seeing more backstory between Emma and Lily. It was extremely heartbreaking. I actually like the twist that fate drove them together, and the way they handled Lilys life being inherently full of darkness made sense. Im actually starting to enjoy the way they’re handling Emma “going dark”, its just a steady slide. I hope there’s an epic payoff. I don’t really mind them using fate to explain all the conveniences away, but it is still kind of cheap. Regina talking Emma down was awesome, this whole scene was amazing. Im very glad Emma did the right thing. Maybe she won’t go dark? This definitely puts it in doubt a little bit. I do worry what them taking her to Storybrooke may unleash. I LOVE that the apprentice got to Lily in our world and told her everything. Very cool. I guess he can literally go to any realm at any time, and Lily calling him yoda was one of my favorite lines ever.

Zelena is pregnant…. WOW didn’t see this coming. Everyone was saying that Regina was probably pregnant, but no, this was just shocking to me. I do kind of wonder how Zelena got pregnant and Robin still never noticed the necklace. This was an awesome twist.

An update on last week, after listening to all the podcasts, rewatching the episode and more thought, i do like last weeks episode better. I still have some problems but i dont hate it so much anymore. I would say… 6.75/10 skinned authors. As for this week, i really enjoyed it. 8/10 dragon leashes


From Becca

This episode was killer. One of the best I can remember. Your first thoughts podcast hit on a lot of the things that stood out to me. Here are the things that have been on my mind since re-watching:

Emma: She seems to be in one never-ending jaw clench this season. I can see why. There is a lot piled on her plate right now-

regret over killing Cruella, (possibly a bit of satisfaction over killing Cruella as well??),
fear that killing Cruella means she is going dark (I know she holds to her own free will, but perhaps deep inside she is afraid that darkness is overtaking out of her control)
unforgiveness with her parents,
lily’s drama,
stuff with the author/Gold
Protecting Henry

I’m not so much concerned with her going dark due to a conscious choice, as I am of her being so overwhelmed by all of these stressors and reaching a breaking point.

I’d have to agree with some listeners about Emma needing to forgive her parents…the thing about forgiveness is: it’s for your own good to forgive others. Forgiveness doesn’t mean pretending that the hurt never happened. In fact, ignoring a hurt and pretending it didn’t happen is basically the opposite of forgiveness. Forgiveness means that you accept that the choices were made, no matter how bad they were, and you refuse to let feelings of bitterness or hate affect your life and future decisions.

And forgiveness is a choice that sometimes must be made over and over again. I don’t expect Emma to be perfect and completely forgive her parents in an instant and never struggle with the decisions they made regarding her and Lily. I just want to see Emma start in the direction of coming to terms with the choices made. I want to see her choose to be an adult and recognize that her parents made a difficult decision that probably wasn’t ideal.

All this bitterness is doing is eating away at her. It is slowly draining the life out of her. She is losing her personality and the things that make her “Emma”. It seems that every episode she becomes more solemn and melancholy.

*And one more thing about forgiveness: the “guilty” party doesn’t have to be sorry to be forgiven! Forgiveness isn’t a bargain where each party gives and each party takes. Forgiveness isn’t a cop-out for bad behavior. Forgiveness is a freely given, undeserved gift for those who are given it. And it is takes a lot of strength to offer that free gift and expect nothing in return. But it is very freeing for those who discover the act of living unoffended lives.*

She can forgive her parents even if they never apologized and sincerely say “we were wrong”. It’s about hate and bitterness losing it’s hold on Emma, not about her parents repenting of all wrong and making amends for their wrongs. I’d love to see Snow and Charming right their wrongs, but Emma has control over how this affects her and I really want to see her personal development in this area. Fingers crossed that this is in store before the season ends!

Robin Hood’s duty to Zelena and the baby:

Does he really need to stay with her? Maybe I’m just super insensitive and not well versed in baby-daddy etiquette, but I feel like if you were manipulated into conceiving with the wicked witch who killed your wife and disguised herself as her, that should earn you a get-out-of-daddying-free card?! But I guess the poor child would be doomed with Zelena as the only parental influence in its life, so maybe its best for Robin Hood to stay.

…But I can’t even imagine how Robin + Zelena co-parenting will even work! How is he going to agree with any decisions that Zelena makes for their child? She killed his wife. Marriages (or any relationship) can’t last without some trust. And I’m just guessing he probably has zero trust in her? The child might motivate him to stay, but there is no way that Robin Hood will find a way to co-parent with Zelena, right? Just no way.

Any thoughts on how that might work?

Thanks to you both for the podcast. It is a highlight every week.


P.S- from my first e-mail from the Cruella episode, you deduced that I’m from central time zone based on my OUAT time slot of 7-8pm. You are correct 🙂 I’m deep in the heart of Texas. Wish I was closer to California- I’d come to RegalCon!


Hi Colleen and Jeff!

First, you both made comments that you felt may get you some nasty emails during the Heart of Gold main show. Here’s mine

Hehe, Just kidding! I think everything you said was right on point…both of you.

OHHHH MY!! This was a great episode…and then the last minute happened and I GROOOOANNED out loud. I had a feeling it was coming and I was yelling “no, don’t do it, don’t let it be a baby”…and then, there it was, the Telenovelas moment of OUAT. I feel we have enough going on with Robin and Regina without this being necessary. I know it’s bad, but initially, I was like “so what if she’s pregnant-she totally deceived you and is a rotten person, just take Roland and leave with Regina!” But, Robin’s honor would never let him do that and Zelena knows this. So, the only reasoning that makes this ok, is if it’s a fake pregnancy. Then again, the other thing I thought was “might as well go big or go home”…what if Regina is pregnant too?? We did have the episode where she told Emma she eats like a child and was eating healthy, kale salad…? After re-watching, I was better with the ending realizing that it hopefully is a last ditch desperate attempt to keep Robin from Regina and get back into Storybrooke. Fingers crossed. Switching gears: I think my theory on the sorcerer being her father got another boost. The apprentice told Lilly if she noticed how the necklace complimented her tattoo so well, and the Hat has a star with a crecsent moon…thoughts? By far, the Emma/Regina chemistry and friendship was the best this episode…I could watch their scenes together over and over. I love watching their relationship develop. It has progressed perfectly. Not too rushed or too slow. Ok…the scene. Probably one of the best scenes the entire series in my opinion. Emma wanting to shoot Lilly and Regina talking her down. Written, acted, and shot beautifully!! Even if we all knew she wasn’t going to do it-it was sooo well done! I still have goose bumps. I feel the end scene overshadowed how great of a moment this truly was, but I just loved it! Now everyone is coming for the author!! I think he and the apprentice have big parts to play in the finale which hopefully means we’ll finally get to see him released from the hat!

Things that made me go hmmm….why did Regina give Maleficent Belle’s heart? Why not put it in your vault with the heart lockers and protection spells? And Maleficent is just the “Mistress of all Evil” we all knew. She couldn’t stop Will from going out the window-or Dragon out and go get it back? She lost her baby to the Charmings, and did nothing really to stop them-sooooo…basically, she puts people to sleep? I still think Belle gave her heart willingly-but when Regina told her to “run along and forget all this” is when she forgot. Why did Hook and Belle stop trying to get the Apprentice out of the hat? He was so upset about it and it seemed like a good mission and sure better than what they’ve been doing. Why did the apprentice tell Lilly everything and not Emma? He should have gotten them both together as young ladies, told them both what was up, and they could have helped eachother this whole time! Just saying. Unless that would have messed with Emma’s destiny to be the savior…? He basically told Lilly she was doomed from the get go…I kinda feel like he left her with no hope, and helped put her on her path for revenge. Just didn’t make sense, what do you all think?

Great episode. Lilly and Emma being eachother Ying and Yang is going to get very interesting. Can’t wait for next week and all the “Mother’s!”
Big love to both of you and all the Oncers. Talk to you next week, Trace


From Brad

The next time you’re on a bus, take note of the rambling old man in the back. He may actually have all the answers you’re looking for. Now onto the Things I Learned this week on the episode, Lily.

#1. Pay no attention to the
sorcerer behind the curtain.

#2. Fate is like that annoying
little fly that keeps buzzing in
your ear.

#3. Think twice before calling a
women’s friend a loser.

#4. Emma needs a bumper
sticker that reads, “I brake for

#5. Sometimes one pack of Advil
just isn’t enough.

#6. Free burgers for a week
would make anybody smile.

#7. Regina was so close when
she stated that fate was a
female dog, it turns out it’s
actually a wolf.

#8. Emma might have learned her
fast and furious driving skills
from Dominic Torreto.

#9. Lily is a fan of Star Wars.

#10. Even the apprentice has
to pay bus fare.

– Brad


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